Free Broccoli

pizzavanguard:

Free Broccoli: I’m thinking about how far you can drift from libertarian principles before you stop being libertarian.

freebroccoli:

Note: This is less of a definitive statement of my opinions are more typing whatever I think about in the moment. I don’t claim any of this as anything more that my opinions in the moment I wrote them.

Not value judgements of “good” or “bad” libertarian, but just being a libertarian.

I define…

Lmao libertarians are seriously the most dogmatic ppl ever when it comes to political philosophy

Not so much dogmatic as trying to keep the definition correct. If we had a more thorough examination of this, we might have fewer debates over who a “real” libertarian is.

supersmashthestatebros:

I’m not a market anarchist, I’m a supermarket anarchist, thank you.

I’m thinking about how far you can drift from libertarian principles before you stop being libertarian.

Note: This is less of a definitive statement of my opinions are more typing whatever I think about in the moment. I don’t claim any of this as anything more that my opinions in the moment I wrote them.

Not value judgements of “good” or “bad” libertarian, but just being a libertarian.

I define the core of libertarianism to be the NAP, so only divergences from the NAP count against you. Things that don’t disqualify you from libertarianism include:

• Religion
• Bigotry
• Idiocy
• Personal opinions about “vices”
• Strategic disagreements
• Rudeness

That last one seems to trip people up a lot. When I say “strategic disagreements,” I mean when people argue whether or not libertarians should use government services/methods, which issues should receive priority, or which demographics should be appealed to. These differences don’t make or break a libertarian, but the person in question still needs to go by the NAP to be a libertarian. If you don’t try to consistently apply the NAP, you can only be, at best, someone with libertarian leanings.What is frequently derided as “libertarian purism” is often legitimate concern that the term is applied consistently. Glenn Beck and Bill Maher are not libertarians, and it harms the movement to call them one because it creates a false idea of what we stand for. Liberals and conservatives alike who identify as libertarians because they want to sound less mainstream harm the movement for the same reason. It is perfectly within the interests of libertarians to insist that these people are incorrectly identifying themselves, providing they can explain why the NAP is not being consistently applied.

Furthermore, just because you are a proper libertarian doesn’t mean you’re above criticism. You can still be a “bad” libertarian who makes us all look bad, is detrimental to the movement, promotes bad strategy, etc.

the-liberty-republican:

The only one sounding self righteous here is you. It is a problem. It does need to be addressed. You’re the one having a fit over the fact that I pointed it out and telling me I’m going to go down some terrible path for calling out bullies within the liberty movement and saying this ever growing issue needs to end because it is damn harmful to us. 

At no point was my complaint that you were calling out bullies. I apologize if that’s how it came across. My one and only objection was what appeared to be your characterization of most or all libertarians as bullies, assholes, etc. I object to your presenting the actions of a few as a generalization.

the-liberty-republican:

Free Broccoli: the-liberty-republican:So because you can name 2 users that you…

the-liberty-republican:

So because you can name 2 users that you haven’t ever seen being mean that makes it so this problem doesn’t actually exist within the libertarian community? Come on, it’s a huge problem. And we are known for it. All we do is play purity games and eat each other alive….

I’m not saying all libertarians are X. I’m saying there is a huge problem within the libertarian community and many of us are cannibalistic assholes.

You post was devoid of any limited qualifiers. Not some libertarians, not many libertarians, but just libertarians. Even “Ya’ll libertarians”, which can be inferred to mean “You all” (not that I’m saying you meant that, only that it could be very logically taken that way). That is my problem.

Also, nice tag. Seriously? That’s the conclusion you come to because I said we need to stop accepting people acting like bullies within this movement? Just stop. Why are you refusing to accept any criticism of libertarians? I’m a libertarian and I have no problem with saying that we need to fix our shit. Pretending it’s a few fringe members who participate in this behavior won’t change the truth about how widespread it truly is. 

I have no problem with valid criticism. I think constructive criticism is great. But acting self-righteous and making general statements like that is an excellent way to convince them that you’re just insulting people to inflate your own ego. I don’t think you are, but that’s the way it comes across, especially when we have had people like ck who started exactly like this and ended up just like she did.

the-liberty-republican:

So because you can name 2 users that you haven’t ever seen being mean that makes it so this problem doesn’t actually exist within the libertarian community? Come on, it’s a huge problem. And we are known for it. All we do is play purity games and eat each other alive. The presence of exceptions doesn’t make it any less true. It is still a pervasive problem and it needs to be changed. Libertarians need to stop acting as if this movement is perfect and cannot be criticized and has no issues that need addressing. 

That’s not what I said at all. I object to making large blanket statements, implying if not outright saying “all libertarians are x”

the-liberty-republican:

freebroccoli:

the-liberty-republican:

I have seriously had it with libertarians. Ya’ll are the meanest bunch of assholes I’ve ever fucking met. You’re nothing but bullies, and you’re the reason the liberty movement can’t get anywhere. 

Harassing a 14 year old because he is coming to libertarianism through conservatism is not acceptable. Seriously, go fuck yourselves.  You people are disgusting and cannibalistic. 

Can I get some qualifiers on that?

What do you mean?

I don’t see LALiberty or the Hipter Libertarian doing any of those things. I don’t think I did any of that. Your proverbial beef is with specific individuals, not the entire class of libertarians.